Women Leaders - Ukraine inside and out with Kristina Zeleniuk & Kim Barker

A long war is unimaginable to people in the developed world. Since WWII, most states in Europe have not experienced conflict in their lands — barring the Balkans in the 1990s — and the US has never really lived through such a reality, apart from the bombing of Pearl Harbour in December 1941 and the attacks of 9/11. And while some parts of Africa are mired in conflict as indeed is the Middle East, it is the success of the postwar order that war is largely not an ongoing backdrop to life across the globe.

And then there is Ukraine: invaded in 2014 by Russia, that illegally annexed the Crimea then sent its “little green men” into the Donbas, where there has been fighting ever since. Then came the full scale invasion on 24 February 2022. Incredibly, Ukraine repelled most of the Russian invaders, but a deadly front line was established alongside ongoing vicious Russian attacks on cities and civilian infrastructure across Ukraine.

How do you understand these events as a journalist inside Ukraine, trying to report the truth while not exposing your state at war? How do you cover these events as an international journalist, seeking the real story without endangering people? And what happens to truth and journalism in a long war in which civil society is a strong player and corruption rears its head?

To answer these and many other questions Ilana Bet-El is joined by Kristina Zeleniuk of website TSN and Kim Barker of the New York Times. A fluid, fascinating and funny conversation with passionate journalists.

This episode was recorded on 13 November 2025

Chapters
The call for journalism: passion and purpose
Navigating journalism in a war zone
The current state in Ukraine
The impact of corruption scandal on Western support
The critical role of Ukrainian civil societycall for journalism: passion and purpose
Navigating journalism in a war zone
The current state in Ukraine
The impact of corruption scandal on Western support
The critical role of Ukrainian civil society

Mentions

TSN website; https://tsn.ua/en
Dmytro Khyliuk: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2..., freed Ukrainian journalist
The Taliban Shuffle: Strange Days in Afghanistan and Pakistan https://www.amazon.com/Taliban-Shuffl...
Whisky Tango Foxtrot: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3553442/

Follow
Kim Barker LinkedIn:   / kimbarker30  , New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/by/kim-barker, website: https://www.kim-barker.com
Kristina Zeleniuk LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristina-...
Ilana Bet-El: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ilana-bet...
Instagram: @women_leaders_podcast
Our partner European Leadership Network Twitter:   / @theeln   LinkedIn:   / european-leadership-network-for-multilater...   Facebook:   / europeanleadershipnetwork   website: https://www.europeanleadershipnetwork...)

Credits
Production: Florence Ferrando
Music: Let Good Times Roll, RA from #Uppbeat License code: ZXIIIJUU2ISPZIJT