14a | Track 1 | Panel | O’ What a Tangled Web

O’ What a Tangled Web: Navigating the Blurry Line Between Military and Commercial Space

As the boundary between military and commercial space continues to blur, how can governments, companies, and alliances manage risk, responsibility, and resilience?

In this Track 1 leadership panel from the 7th Summit for Space Sustainability, Victoria Samson of the Secure World Foundation moderates a high-level discussion with experts from NATO, Airbus Defence and Space, the Max Planck Institute / IISS, and the Foundation for Strategic Research (FRS).

The panel explores how the weaponization of space, the dual-use nature of technology, and commercial-military partnerships are reshaping both international law and global stability — and what this means for responsible behavior in orbit.

Featuring:
• Julie Biem, Space Officer, NATO D2IA
• Xavier Pasco, Director, Fondation pour la Recherche Stratégique (FRS)
• Erin Pobjie, Senior Fellow for Space (IISS); SR Research Affiliate (Max Planck Institute)
• Stéphane Vesval, VP Sales & Marketing, Airbus Defence & Space
• Moderator: Victoria Samson, Chief Director, Space Security and Stability, Secure World Foundation

Timestamps
00:44 – “Space safety, space sustainability, and space security are interconnected.” – Erin Pobjie (IISS)
01:43 – “The prohibition of the use of force between states applies in outer space.” – Erin Pobjie (IISS)
03:58 – “Commercial actors can also be targeted by adversaries.” – Erin Pobjie (IISS)
05:21 – “The interconnection between commercial and governmental business is now structuring our environment.” – Stéphane Vesval (Airbus)
06:26 – “Sovereignty… means we need to be a trusted partner.” – Stéphane Vesval (Airbus)
08:27 – “It is our joint responsibility that space remain a clean environment.” – Stéphane Vesval (Airbus)
10:36 – “NATO defined space as an operational domain.” – Julie Biem (NATO)
12:21 – “Russia made it explicitly clear that they see any commercial actor as legitimate targets.” – Julie Biem (NATO)
14:27 – “We’re setting up the so-called ‘space front door’—a one-stop shop for industry to work with NATO.” – Julie Biem (NATO)
16:58 – “We can bring countries together and find a mechanism to share responsibility and protect our commercial partners.” – Julie Biem (NATO)
20:46 – “The Space Pact launched by France aims to get players closer together to meet defense needs.” – Xavier Pasco (FRS)
23:53 – “Using commercial systems as weapon systems is not in the minds of the military here.” – Xavier Pasco (FRS)
28:50 – “Dual-use capabilities can be considered military objectives.” – Erin Pobjie (IISS)
31:24 – “Russia cannot lawfully target commercial space assets of the United States.” – Erin Pobjie (IISS)
35:26 – “Trust is something you build over decades and lose in a fraction of a second.” – Stéphane Vesval (Airbus)
37:52 – “We’re standing up NATO’s first committee of space subject-matter experts.” – Julie Biem (NATO)
41:14 – “Space products are increasingly digitalized — that’s a game changer.” – Xavier Pasco (FRS)
43:41 – “We’ll see space infrastructures talking to each other, military and commercial alike.” – Xavier Pasco (FRS)
46:19 – “Yes, I can see commercial actors refusing to participate, and we’d have to accept that.” – Julie Biem (NATO)
47:43 – “Defense is actually positive — if you want to protect your way of living, democracy, freedom.” – Stéphane Vesval (Airbus)
53:18 – “Can space really stay peaceful if military and commercial projects keep mixing?” – Victoria Samson (SWF)
54:06 – “We see operations that are definitely not peaceful anymore.” – Julie Biem (NATO)
55:33 – “Space is getting more banal — less a sanctuary than it used to be.” – Xavier Pasco (FRS)
57:06 – “Everybody must keep a deep sense of responsibility.” – Stéphane Vesval (Airbus)

Highlights

“Russia made it explicitly clear that they see any commercial actor as legitimate targets.” – Julie Biem (NATO)

“Commercial actors can also be targeted by adversaries.” – Erin Pobjie (IISS)

“It is our joint responsibility that space remain a clean environment.” – Stéphane Vesval (Airbus)

“The Space Pact launched by France aims to get players closer together to meet defense needs.” – Xavier Pasco (FRS)

“Dual-use capabilities can be considered military objectives.” – Erin Pobjie (IISS)

“We see operations that are definitely not peaceful anymore.” – Julie Biem (NATO)

“Space is getting more banal , less a sanctuary than it used to be.” – Xavier Pasco (FRS)

Keywords / Tags
space security, military space, commercial space, dual-use technology, NATO, Airbus Defence and Space, FRS, IISS, international law, use of force, space warfare, deterrence, sovereignty, France Space Pact, space policy, legal framework, commercial integration, space debris, Secure World Foundation, SWF Summit Paris 2024