The Philosophy Of Antinatalism | David Benatar | Escaped Sapiens #86

In this episode I speak with philosopher and author David Benatar. David is best known for advancing the position of philanthropic antinatalism, which holds that coming into existence is a serious harm for sentient beings. Central to his view is the asymmetry argument, which maintains that the absence of pain is good even if no one benefits from it, while the absence of pleasure is not bad unless someone is deprived of it.

David also argues that our lives are significantly worse than we tend to realize, due in part to a pervasive positivity bias. He supports this claim with a range of empirical studies, including work on optimism bias, affective forecasting, and rosy retrospection. Relevant studies include:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles...
https://2024.sci-hub.se/1554/00562a74...
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1980-0...
https://www.happierlivesinstitute.org...

At the same time, David’s antinatalist position is challenged by other philosophers, as well as by research showing that global well-being has been improving across many important metrics. Numerous studies also suggest that most people self-report being happy and that subjective well-being often remains surprisingly high even under adverse circumstances. A counter-perspective is that humans are not blind to suffering but are instead highly adaptive, and capable of overcoming life’s challenges and minimizing the impact of hardship. Relevant studies include:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14717...
https://link.springer.com/article/10....
https://cmc.marmot.org/Record/.b57484296

►For those interested in finding out more, David explores his position in depth and engages extensively with opposing arguments in his written work. Learn more about his work here:
https://humanities.uct.ac.za/departme...
https://tomwilk.net/wp-content/upload...

Note: At ~21:00 I was mistakenly parsing `not good' to mean `bad' as opposed to literally `not good' - which led me to stumble on David's answer here.

At ~23:20 David and I talk past one another. At the end of the interview we add a section clarifying David's position.

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Menu:
0:00 - Intro: David Benatar
1:06 - What is Antinatalism.
7:20 - Philanthropic Antinatalism.
8:30 - The Axiological Asymmetry Argument.
17:40 - My Confusion with the Philosophy
24:50 - Counterfactual Arguments
26:50 - Pleasure Vs. Pain.
32:50 - Hard Tests of The Philosophy
37:30 - Reported happiness.
42:13 - More on Experimental Evidence.
45:40- Is there more Harm or benefit?
52:30 - Empirical asymmetries.
56:40 - Antinatalism.
59:10 - Is the world getting better?
1:04:40 - What makes life worth living?
1:07:17 - Clarification of missunderstandings

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