What Is A Woman (At Work)? HR Director Faces Maya Forstater (Ft. Neil Morrison)

It’s official: self-ID was never lawful, and too many UK employers have dangerous policies in place. Why did we need the Supreme Court to tell us this – and what should employers do now?

Since the landmark ruling on 16 April, emotions have been running high, and HR teams face the daunting task of assessing and correcting their policies, while managing employee reactions from across their workforce, and hot takes from activist pressure groups keen to overturn or circumvent the ruling. 

The CIPD has dropped the ball, so we’re picking it up, presenting HR professionals with this calm, dispassionate analysis to help you find clarity and a way forward. If you identify as sensible, this is the conversation for you.

This week’s episode features two guests: Maya Forstater (women’s rights campaigner and founder of Sex Matters) and Neil Morrison (HR director at Severn Trent). We ask:

What does the Supreme Court ruling mean for employers? 

If the judgment was clear, who has been creating confusion – and why?

How have big employers reacted to the news? What mistakes does Neil think they have made?

Which employers will find it hardest to unpick the problems they’ve woven into their organisation’s policies and culture? Which industries will lead - and who will be last?

What are the legal risks for employers who don’t sort this out immediately?

What role have Stonewall, the CIPD, confused lawyers, and poor-quality #DEI training played in leading employers down the wrong path? 

Have employers who have got this wrong underestimated the scale of the mess they have made? Do they understand how angry some of their employees are - and is it time to apologise?

Looking back, this sort of conversation should have happened a long time ago.

Whatever your personal view on this topic, it’s become clear that ‘No debate’ belongs in the bin.

It's time to start talking...

Enjoy the episode!

USEFUL LINKS

Sex Matters https://sex-matters.org/where-sex-mat...

Neil's blog post 'Let lawmakers make the law' https://change-effect.com/2025/04/22/...

Akua Reindorf KC in The Times: https://archive.ph/kmLQW (Recommended by Neil)

00:00 Introduction
03:58 Explaining the Supreme Court Ruling
05:14 Implications For Employers
05:49 Reactions from Politicians and Activists
10:03 Public Reaction
11:41 Distress And Disappointment
17:13 Women's Anger And Frustration
19:17 Legal Risks for Employers
22:48 The Scale Of The Problem
25:42 Gender Diversity Training
27:45 Neil's Reaction And Views
32:04 Employers And Activism
35:56 Should Policy 'Be Kind'?
41:06 Stonewall's Influence
45:01 Blaming the CIPD
51:17 Neil's Advice For HR Teams
57:14 Should Employers Apologise?
01:01:22 Seeking A Range Of Views
01:03:10 Where To, Next?