“Most Product Teams have no ROI” -ex Google, Bitly PM

In this episode, I speak with Matt LeMay, author of "Impact First Product Teams" and "Product Management in Practice," about why product teams need to be laser-focused on business impact. Whether you're a PM wondering how to justify your team's existence during layoffs or a leader trying to align your work with what the business actually needs, this conversation is for you.

⏰ Timestamps:

Introduction to Matt LeMay and his background - 00:00
Why Matt wrote "Impact First Product Teams" - 01:13
The commercial reality facing product teams today - 03:02
Matt's experience at Bitly and lessons learned - 06:03
Conducting better user research - 08:24
Why ROI is essential for product teams - 09:01
Linear and Miro ads - 10:31
Importance of ROI in the current environment - 11:52
What makes different teams valuable to the business - 12:52
Drawing a direct line from daily work to business impact - 15:16
The importance of understanding business success conditions - 17:40
The problem with goal setting in most companies - 21:22
Amplitude ad - 30:02
Breaking the "low impact death spiral" - 31:14
The critical question: "Would you fully fund this team?" - 35:15
Skills and mindsets for product managers - 42:38
How commercially-minded PMs often find greater happiness - 47:55
Matt's business model and path to writing - 52:26
Advice for aspiring consultants and product leaders - 56:56
Closing thoughts on making real impact - 59:48

Transcript: https://www.news.aakashg.com/p/matt-l...

💼 Check out our sponsors:

Linear: Plan and build products like the best - https://linear.app/partners/aakash
Miro: The innovation workspace: your team’s canvas - http://miro.pxf.io/PO4WZX
Amplitude: Try their 2-min assessment of your company’s digital maturity - https://bit.ly/4hl25RG

👀 Where to find Matt:

Books:
"Impact First Product Teams" - https://amzn.to/42PQ6qi
"Product Management in Practice" - https://amzn.to/4iC278v

LinkedIn:   / mattlemay  
Website: https://mattlemay.com/

👨‍💻 Where to find Aakash:

Twitter:   / aakashg0  
LinkedIn:   / aagupta  
Instagram:   / aakashg0  

🔑 Key Takeaways

1. The $1 Million Question: Is Your Team Worth It?
Product teams cost roughly $1 million annually. If you can't articulate what return the business expects, someone will eventually question this investment. Be prepared to explain your team's value in business terms, especially during economic downturns when every dollar of product development is scrutinized.

2. Draw a Direct Line to Business Impact
Keep goals "one mathematical operation" away from company goals. Instead of getting lost in OKRs and strategy, make it possible to explain in one sentence why your work matters: "We convert X single-product users to multi-product users because it contributes $Y revenue." This direct connection is what distinguishes high-performing product teams.

3. Escape the Low Impact Death Spiral
Teams choose easy, low-scrutiny work that creates complex products with dependencies, making high-impact work harder. Companies respond with more process that further distracts from impact. Break this cycle by prioritizing difficult, high-stakes work that affects your business model, even when uncomfortable.

4. Commercial-Minded PMs Are Happier PMs
Matt's surprising finding: commercially-minded PMs are happiest because they accept that success depends on factors outside their control. The miserable PMs are those fighting to make companies follow Silicon Valley "best practices." Focus on your product, team, and mental health—not on making your company "do product the right way."

5. Ask: "If You Were CEO, Would You Fund This Team?"
This question creates a powerful mindset shift about opportunity cost. Matt has seen teams voluntarily disband after facing it—realizing their talent could create more value elsewhere. Be the architect of your own scrutiny, not its subject, by proactively aligning with business success.

#productmanagement #BusinessStrategy #Leadership #roi

🧠 About Product Growth:

The world's largest podcast focused solely on product + growth, with over 167K listeners. Hosted by Aakash Gupta, who spent 16 years in PM, rising to VP of product, this 2x/ week show covers product and growth topics in depth.

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