Episode 55: The real war is not in Gaza, with Dr. Einat Wilf

Trump's peace plan explicitly calls for deradicalization of the Gazan population. Countries like Saudi Arabia and Indonesia are hoping to take part in Gaza's rebuilding in part so they can help push back against the radical Islamism of Hamas, which those countries see as a larger threat to themselves as well.

Can Palestinian society be deradicalized? What might that even mean? Is the problem a religious one? A political one? Can Israel play a part, and how would that look?

We turned to Dr. Einat Wilf, a leading thinker and writer on Israel, on the conflict, on the history of the two peoples, and on Israel's foreign and education policies. Wilf has long argued that Palestinian society is in thrall to a particular ideological narrative that goes beyond Palestinian self-determination and fixates on the demand for a complete eradication of Israel - and that Palestinian ideologues and elites have been advancing that desire for generations, nearly always at the expense of Palestinian interests and wellbeing. She also believes they will continue to do so until this impulse is understood, named and tackled head-on.

This episode is sponsored by the American Technion Society. With Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah degraded, what technologies will Israel need to defend itself in a new Middle East? Every day, groundbreaking research from the Technion – Israel Institute of Technology is transformed into real world defense tech that protects Israel and saves lives. From Iron Dome to Iron Beam, drones to satellites, and cybersecurity to supercomputers, fundamental science born in Technion labs is brought to life by visionary Technion alumni serving in the IDF and defense industries giving Israel its qualitative edge.

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Musical intro by Adam Ben Amitai.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Einat Wilf and Her Expertise
02:24 The Current State of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
05:09 Assessing the Recent War and Its Implications
08:13 Understanding the Broader War Against Zionism
11:09 The Role of Propaganda in the Conflict
14:02 Palestinian Identity and the Right of Return
17:01 The Dilemma of Palestinian Leadership
20:04 The Impact of External Influences on Palestinianism
22:50 The Historical Context of the Conflict
25:44 The Future of Israeli-Palestinian Relations
36:19 The Right of Return and Sovereignty
38:23 The Trump Peace Plan and Its Challenges
40:47 Hamas's Role and Future in Gaza
42:12 Defining the Enemy: Hamas and Palestinian Identity
45:32 Constructive Specificity in Peace Processes
47:53 The Ideological Battle: Palestinianism and Its Future
50:35 The Role of Islam in Palestinian Identity
56:10 Reformist Impulses in the Muslim World
58:13 The Abraham Accords and Future Stability
01:09:57 Optimism for Change and Leadership in Israel