Christian vs Atheist vs Astrologer - Debate Faith & Religion

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Is hope human, divine, or dangerous? A Christian, Atheist and Astrologer tangle over heaven, judgment, miracles and acceptance. Pull up a stool for pub chat you won’t hear anywhere else.

Hosted by BBC 1Xtra’s Theo Johnson, featured guests; Swarzy Shire, Benjamin Butterworth and Francesca Oddie. Three ways of seeing the world. One bar. All the questions that connect us.

Introducing Walk In A Bar — unlikely guests sit for a conversation that is anything but ordinary. Deep questions. Surprising perspectives. Banter on tap. New episode’s dropping bi-weekly. Subscribe to    / @four8tv   to watch new episodes. Follow along on   / four8stories   for updates and exclusive behind-the-scenes content.

CHAPTERS:
0:00 — Hope, in plain English
Swarzy says Christian hope isn’t a wish; it’s certainty about justice and a world made right.
0:46 — So… what is heaven?
Francesca asks for specifics; Swarzy paints “no death, no sickness, joy restored.”
1:32 — Benjamin: heaven is human
Love, safety, laughter and food here on earth—not a gift from above.
1:58 — Faith without hope?
Theo probes; Francesca says many people hope for good without ever praying.
2:26 — Hope, faith & religion
Benjamin separates personal faith from organised religion and rituals.
3:06 — Miracle or mindset shift?
Francesca describes “answered prayers,” detours that still land you where you’re meant to be.
3:31 — Benjamin’s scratch-card test
We pedestal “miracles” because of context and behaviour, not the divine.
3:58 — Do healings count?
Francesca points to medical turnarounds and the full-bodied hope people carry after.
4:18 — Is hope denial?
Theo pushes; Benjamin warns hope can slide into comfort-blanket delusion.
4:41 — Acceptance reduces suffering
Francesca argues accepting reality can soften pain, even when it doesn’t vanish.
5:06 — Justice and judgment
Swarzy: God is near the broken-hearted and wrongs will be accounted for.
5:32 — Faith vs religion (one-liners)
Quick definitions from each guest; overlap and friction on practice vs belief.
5:58 — What keeps you hopeful?
Round-robin: Swarzy (promise), Benjamin (people), Francesca (cycles and growth).
6:28 — Practical hope
Theo asks for something viewers can try tomorrow; each offers a simple habit.
7:00 — Where they agree (and don’t)
Shared ground on love, agency and meaning—sharp splits on source and proof.
7:34 — Final pushback
Benjamin questions “toxic hope”; Swarzy defends certainty; Francesca mediates acceptance.
8:10 — Last orders
Theo wraps, tees up the next bar question, and closes the tab.
9:20 — Last orders
Theo closes the bar and tees up the next question for the series.

CREDITS:
Host: Theo Johnson
Featuring: Swarzy Shire, Benjamin Butterworth and Francesca Oddie
Created by: James Walker
Director of Photography: Ricardo Mcleary-Campbell
Series Director: Femi Oyeniran
Series Producer: Delia Williams
Camera Operators: Fola Abatan, Alexander Rozerot Kirkwood, Giulio Piccirillo, Dan Howe, Jomar O’Meally
Gaffer: Duane Jay
Spark: Sachin Parmar
2nd AC: Marcellino Hockner
Assistant Producer: Lakesha Abrams
Casting By: LEVILE
Casting Assistant: Vanessa Mensah
Production Design: Wet Studio
Art Director: Hannah Eccles
Supervising Sound Editor: James Hynes
Sound Recordist: Declan Chew
Sound Assistant: Ada Walker
Digital Imaging Technician: Judy Tett
Make Up Artist: Tashana Francis
Photographer: Johnathan Williams
Location Assistants: Alex Bullock, Alex Lawrence, Mairéad Ruane
Editor: Olumide Odutuga
Series Edit Producer: Bec Gourlay 
Colourist: Freddie Reed
Post Production Sound: The Sound Directors
Graphics: Isabella Walker
Executive Producers: James Walker, Vikki McLachlan
Filmed on Location at: Stereo Covent Garden
With Thanks: Soho Sonic
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