After the End of History, an Age of Disorder (with Francis Fukuyama and Nathan Gardels)

More than three decades ago, Francis Fukuyama saw the future: a world order that looked inevitable, stable, liberal. What emerged instead is something bumpier, louder, and far more dangerous.

In this episode, Fukuyama takes us on a ride through the strange resurrection of 19th-century power politics, the rise of political strongmen, and the collapse of trust that can doom institutions to failure. We discuss what’s left to salvage – and what a bureaucracy of the future could accomplish.

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00:00 Shifting Geopolitical Landscape
02:43 The State of Democracy
12:10 Liberalism's Challenges and Identity Politics
16:18 Return to 19th Century Power Dynamics
17:54 AI and the New Arms Race
22:03 Civilizational States and Western Identity
26:15 Fragmentation and the Public Square
29:22 Community Moderation vs. Centralized Control
31:34 Tariffs and Economic Strategy
35:03 The Role of Bureaucracy in Governance
40:24 Empowering Bureaucrats for Efficiency
46:35 Challenges of Bureaucratic Complexity
48:19 Political Decay and Innovation in Bureaucracy'