Debating the science and ethics of IVF

A genomics PhD and conservative bioethicist debate the ethics of in vitro fertilization and discuss recent scientific advancements in reproductive medicine.

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How should the government treat in vitro fertilization (IVF)? Should they regulate it more? Should they subsidize it? Just asking questions. 

The above are all questions that the Trump administration is actively considering in the wake of an executive order seeking to expand access to IVF. President Donald Trump previously declared himself "the fertilization president" while speaking at a women's conference.

Today's guests have thought about a lot about reproductive technology, birth rates, and family policy, each arriving at some very different conclusions at times. Ruxandra Teslo is a genomics Ph.D. student at the University of Cambridge and writes often about fertility and technology at Ruxandra's Substack. Emma Waters is a reproductive technology and bioethics policy analyst at The Heritage Foundation. In this discussion, they debate the ethics of in vitro fertilization, discuss recent scientific advancements such as the ability to create eggs from other types of cells and three-parent embryos, and the emerging market in "embryo selection" that allows parents to choose between embryos with different genetic traits. 

00:00 – Introduction and IVF Policy Context
01:21 – IVF as a Solution for Ambitious Women
04:53 – IVF Critiqued for Ignoring Root Causes
08:31 – A Rebuttal: IVF Still Has Value Despite Limits
13:05 – Egg Freezing: When, How, and Why It Works
16:50 – The Motherhood Penalty in High-Pressure Careers
20:10 – Reframing Motherhood as a Gift, Not a Penalty
23:59 – Parenthood's Transformative Impact
26:55 – Supporting Fertility Into the Late 30s
31:19 – Income, Incentives, and Family Wealth Dynamics
34:20 – Is IVF Reliable Enough to Justify Delaying Kids?
38:20 – Innovations in Fertility and IVF Technologies
41:26 – Raising Ethical Concerns About Future Reproductive Tech
44:07 – Does Selection Technology Devalue Life?
47:53 – IVF, Embryo Selection, and Suffering
50:24 – Selection Ethics: Miscarriage vs Discarding Embryos
55:52 – Grappling with the Moral Weight of Miscarriage
59:38 – The Core Disagreement: What Is a Human Embryo?
01:06:17 – IVF, Ethics, and the Boundaries of Human Life
01:10:03 – Can IVF Be Practiced Without Destroying Embryos?
01:20:42 – A Life-Affirming Model for IVF Treatment
01:24:28 – Cultural Shifts and Valuing All Stages of Life
01:26:07 – Fertility Policy: Subsidies, Research, and Cultural Norms