Donald Hoffman & Iain McGilchrist - Is Consciousness Fundamental?

In this episode, I’m joined by two pioneers at the forefront of reshaping our understanding of human consciousness - Professor Donald Hoffman and Dr Iain McGilchrist.

Despite coming from very different backgrounds, they’ve both arrived at surprisingly similar conclusions about some of life’s biggest questions and the nature of reality. This conversation explores the parallels—and differences—in their thinking, covering topics like:

— The growing scientific evidence that consciousness may be fundamental

— The shockingly complex structures that physicists are now discovering beyond spacetime and what this implies

— The power of silence for creating breakthroughs in scientific and creative work

— The need for both a rigorous scientific and embodied approach to understanding consciousness.

And more.

You can dive deeper into Iain’s work through his book: The Matter with Things, and Don’s via his book: The Case Against Reality.

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Dr Iain McGilchrist is a Psychiatrist and Writer, who lives on the Isle of Skye, off the coast of North West Scotland. He is committed to the idea that the mind and brain can be understood only by seeing them in the broadest possible context, that of the whole of our physical and spiritual existence, and of the wider human culture in which they arise – the culture which helps to mould, and in turn is moulded by, our minds and brains. He was formerly a Consultant Psychiatrist of the Bethlem Royal and Maudsley NHS Trust in London, where he was Clinical Director of their southern sector Acute Mental Health Services.

Dr McGilchrist has published original research and contributed chapters to books on a wide range of subjects, as well as original articles in papers and journals, including the British Journal of Psychiatry, American Journal of Psychiatry, The Wall Street Journal, The Sunday Telegraph and The Sunday Times. He has taken part in many radio and TV programmes, documentaries, and numerous podcasts, and interviews on YouTube, among them dialogues with Jordan Peterson, David Fuller of Rebel Wisdom, and philosopher Tim Freke. His books include Against Criticism, The Master and his Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World, The Divided Brain and the Search for Meaning, and Ways of Attending. He published his latest book: The Matter With Things, a book of epistemology and metaphysics. You can keep up to date with his work at https://channelmcgilchrist.com.

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Prof. Donald Hoffman, PhD received his PhD from MIT, and joined the faculty of the University of California, Irvine in 1983, where he is a Professor Emeritus of Cognitive Sciences. He is an author of over 100 scientific papers and three books, including Visual Intelligence, and The Case Against Reality. He received a Distinguished Scientific Award from the American Psychological Association for early career research, the Rustum Roy Award of the Chopra Foundation, and the Troland Research Award of the US National Academy of Sciences. His writing has appeared in Edge, New Scientist, LA Review of Books, and Scientific American and his work has been featured in Wired, Quanta, The Atlantic, and Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman. You can watch his TED Talk titled “Do we see reality as it is?” and you can follow him on Twitter @donalddhoffman.

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Timestamps:

00:00 – Intro
03:40 – What Is Consciousness?
05:37 – Is Consciousness Fundamental?
08:01 – Is Time Really Fundamental?
17:47 – Where Science Breaks Down
22:34 – Donald Hoffman on Reality
27:30 – Iain McGilchrist on Reality
33:23 – How the Brain Shapes Reality
36:22 – How Conscious Observers Relate
39:43 – Relativity and Consciousness
44:10 – What Is a Conscious Agent?
47:25 – Reality vs. Experience
51:39 – Why Math Isn’t Enough
54:55 – What Science Can’t Explain
01:00:04 – Different Ways of Knowing Reality
01:04:15 – Finding Common Ground
01:07:19 – Final Thoughts and Resources

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Interview Links:

— Dr McGilchirst's website - https://channelmcgilchrist.com

— Dr McGilchirst's book - https://amzn.to/3oOSFIW

— Prof Hoffman’s profile - https://sites.socsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/

— Prof Hoffman’s book - https://bit.ly/3SCwTTA