Why Trump Can’t Shake Jeffrey Epstein | The Ezra Klein Show

MAGA has been infighting over the Jeffrey Epstein files. And that’s because the conspiracy theories around Epstein hit at the very core of MAGA’s whole worldview.

Today’s episode looks closer at that worldview. Will Sommer has been tracking conspiracies for years now. He was a reporter at The Washington Post and is now at ‪@bulwarkmedia‬ and he’s the author of “Trust the Plan: The Rise of QAnon and the Conspiracy That Unhinged America.”

In this conversation, we discuss the rise of QAnon, Donald Trump’s slippery relationship to the more conspiracy-minded factions of his base and how the intrigue around the Epstein files has challenged his credibility as an outsider taking on the “corrupt elites.”

This episode contains strong language.

0:00 Intro
7:47 QAnon
17:57 What the polling reveals
25:15 How Epstein's death amplified QAnon
37:11 The strangeness of Epstein
48:40 The Epstein files and MAGA infighting
1:02:15 How Democrats view this moment
1:09:21 Book Recommendations

Read the full transcript here: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/17/op...

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You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-...

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