Ego State-Based Music Therapy (ESMT): A Conversation with Tobias Kranz

In this episode for Ego State Therapy International, Ashkan Anbarzadeh interviews Tobias Kranz (Germany) about an emerging clinical and research area: Ego State-Based Music Therapy (ESMT)—integrating ego state concepts with music therapy to access parts, affect, and nonverbal states.

Tobias shares his professional path from orchestral musician (oboe) to music therapist working in psychiatry, and how curiosity about the “inner system” led him to Ego State Therapy. He describes how his PhD project began: noticing how often inner parts show up naturally in clinical work, and realizing that music therapy needed a clearer structure and language for this kind of parts-oriented process.

In this conversation, we explore:
• Tobias’s path into Ego State Therapy and music therapy
• Why he began developing Ego State-Based Music Therapy (ESMT) for depression
• How music can support ego state work through:
• Externalizing parts with instruments (a “3D” approach: parts placed outside the self)
• Exploring the relationship between parts through sound, rhythm, and position
• A “musical bridge” (parallel to an affect bridge): finding a sound for a felt sense and letting it deepen into meaning
• The “inner orchestra” process: bringing multiple parts into contact and integration over time
• Why music can be especially helpful for nonverbal, frozen, or pre-verbal states
• Research design highlights: method development, expert interviews, a feasibility study, qualitative interviews + follow-up, and symptom tracking

Tobias also speaks candidly about training realities in Germany—how access to certain psychotherapy trainings can be restricted for non-physician/non-psychotherapist professions—and how research and practice can stay closely connected when methods are developed from real clinical needs.

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👤 About the guest

Tobias Kranz is a German music therapist, certified Ego State Therapist, and researcher. He holds a diploma in orchestral music (oboe) and an M.A. in Music Therapy (2012). Since 2011, he has worked in psychiatric settings with adolescents, adults, and older adults. He is a certified member of the German music therapy board (since 2014) and has been involved in music therapy policy work since 2019. Since 2022, he has been a part-time PhD student at the Hamburg University of Music and Drama, researching Ego State-based Music Therapy for depression using a mixed-method convergent design. 

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🔗 Ego State Therapy International – Official channels
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#EgoStateTherapy #MusicTherapy #EgoStateBasedMusicTherapy #ESMT #PartsWork #TraumaInformed #DepressionTreatment #SomaticTherapy #NonverbalTrauma #PsychotherapyResearch #MixedMethods #ESTinternational